Idiots Write About Sports

So KNBR (The Sports Leader) fired Larry Krueger a week after declaring that “he won’t be fired.”

On the one hand, I hate to see anyone lose their job because of one mistake. As Gary Radnich said, “you don’t get a second chance anymore.” But then here’s this other hand, and good ol’ Lefty tells me that if a guy makes stupid racist comments on the radio, he probably deserves to be cut loose.

The bigger idiocy is that KNBR originally declared that they wouldn’t fire Krueger. Way to sound contrite, guys. Sure, the station and Krueger apologized for what he said — but the defiant statement that he wouldn’t lose his job over it made the whole thing sound like, well, “a slap on the hand,” to use the words of a manager whose brain has turned into Cream of Wheat.

Now, I’m sure Kreuger will find another job. Because sports radio has an insatiable appetite for jackasses, and although Krueger might be a loving father off the air, on the air he’s a jackass.

I used to listen to KNBR all the time. Frank & Mike, Kevin Radich, Gary Radnich’s brilliant noon show and his less-brilliant morning show… but now? I honestly can’t remember, outside of a Giants broadcast, the last time I listened to KNBR. It’s gotta be more than a year.

KNBR’s been playing with fire since the days of Steve McPartlin. The John London “Not Just Sports” disaster — can you say “morning zoo?” — showed that KNBR really had sunk to the lowest levels of its medium, trading in any remaining amount of class, any shred of credibility with its audience, for the basest of radio gimmickry.

I’m not saying KNBR was ever a shining diamond of broadcast integrity. After all, I remember Mike Cleary’s comedy skits wedged between plays of “Afternoon Delight” by the Starland Vocal Band. But now there’s no denying that KNBR’s got the luster of a dried-up piece of horse manure.

"brain-dead Caribbean hitters hacking at slop nightly."

Was there more to Krueger's comments than this fairly tepid statement? Because based on this, I'm not getting what the fuss is all about.

Which is the "racist" part? Is the mere mention of the Caribbean somehow offensive? Or is there some obscure stereotype involved here? Are people from the Caribbean always being unfairly generalized as slop-hackers?

Wait a minute... "Brain-dead"... "Caribbean"... It's a Voodoo thing, isn't it? Jobu would not approve.

Please, please, please don't use Gary Radnich as the voice of reason ;-) But seriously, after seeing the support for Krueger among the sports press, I think it's, um, interesting that so many say Krueger shouldn't be condemned for "heat of the moment" comments. I mean, what kinds of careers would the talk show hosts and columnists have if they weren't allowed to condemn athletes for "heat of the moment" incidents? ;-)

On a different note, the way ESPN framed the firing, it wasn't over the initial incident, but over a discussion on the show of Alou's ESPN interview about the incident. No?

As wise Giants blogger (and former MacWEEK Managing Editor) Marty Cortinas has pointed out, the Giants' hitters ARE brain-dead and hack at slop nightly. All of them -- not just the ones from the Carribean.

It's racist, Steve, because he's saying that the people causing the Giants ills are "brain-dead Carribeans." Replace "Carribean" with, say, "black" or "mexican" and try it on for size.

Dan: exactly right. Al Campanis said some things in the "heat of the moment" that were completely out of line with the rest of his professional career, but he said them, which means he thought them, which means he was responsible for him.

These firings happened after they mocked Alou's ESPN appearance on the KNBR morning show -- that's why the morning-show producer was fired. But Krueger was clearly fired because of his original statements, and Agnew (the program director) was fired because... well, who knows why? He stuck up for his guys, or they needed a fall guy. Because I believe it was the guy what did the firin', Tony Salvatore, who originally and arrogantly declared that Krueger wouldn't lose his job. Maybe Salvatore is trying to save his own job. Wouldn't surprise me.

There's a big difference between the phrase "Caribbean hitters", and the term, "Caribbeans" (in fact, I've never actually heard that term used before, but there's a first time for everything.) The former is merely descriptive of a specific group of hitters. The latter does indeed sound like an ethnic slur, but according to the linked story, isn't actually what was said.

It's also a little misleading to pull "brain-dead Caribbean hitters" out of context, since it implies that Krueger was calling all hitters from the Caribbean brain-dead, when it should be obvious that he was specifically referring to a select few Giants.

If, however, the subset of Giants hitters that are from the Caribbean isn't the primary contributor to the team's woes, then I'd agree that it looks an awful lot like a racist statement. I'd also agree that, by baiting Alou, he earned his boot to the ass whether or not the original statement was couched in prejudice.

Way back in 1964, Giants manager Alvin Dark was quoted in a Newsday article saying that black and Latino players "just are not able to perform up to the white ballplayer when it comes to mental alertness. You can't make most Negro and Spanish players have the pride in their team that you can get in the white player. And they just aren't as sharp mentally. They aren't able to adjust to situations because they don't have that mental alertness."

While that interview wound up greasing the skids for him to get fired from the Giants gig (though, truth be told, an extra-marital affair he had probably was the main cause. Anyhow...), Dark's comments were probably widely held among the baseball establishment at the time. It's a preconception that black and Latino players wound up battling for years and years. (I still have a copy of a 1980s National Lampoon article that lists the different words broadcasters used to describe white and black players... "hustler" vs. "speedster," "heady ballplayer" vs. "natual athlete," "mired in a slump" vs. "probably has a drug problem" and so forth...)

So what does this have to do with anything? Well, Alou played for Dark on those Giants teams. And I'm going to guess that having his manager dismiss him and many of his teammates as morons probably stuck with Alou. Further, I'd guess that the Krueger comments brought back some unpleasant memories.

It's just something I haven't seen discussed a lot this past week. People have been so focused on parsing what's so offensive about "brain-dead Caribbean players," they haven't really considered the historical background that's probably beneath the whole brouhaha in the first place.

Krueger's comments, at best, were incredibly stupid. I don't really think they were racist, but they were dumb, and even he should recognize when the imaginary line is crossed in regards to his terminology.

He should've been suspended a month, and the parody of Felipe's ESPN comments shouldn't have been done -- that would've prevented KNBR from having to do this (although I'm still a bit mystified about Agnew's firing). KNBR should've recognized the potential cesspool they were wading in from the beginning and done the P.C. dance. Instead, they openly said they wouldn't fire him, then only suspended him a week, thereby effectly thumbing their noses at P.C. and belittling the suspension.

Oops. Their bad.

But the reaction from the Giants was silly and overblown as well...nobody really did anything right in this.

Steve-O:

Using the logic of your comment above, saying "San Francisco's brain-dead Asian drivers, causing accidents regularly" wouldn't be racist or stereotypical because it's merely describing a specific group of drivers. Similarly, it wouldn't be calling all Asians brain-dead, because it's specifically referring to a select group of San Franciscans.

And, yet, I think many people would be (justifiably) upset if a public official made such a statement ;-)

I will agree with Daniel that this was basically a cock-up all the way around.

My biggest complaints go for KNBR's management, for their quick defense of Krueger. This whole situation would have been somewhat defused if KNBR had been more apologetic, suspending Krueger "indefinately" pending an investigation. Instead, they declared that he'd be out for a week and wouldn't be fired. Just terrible, terrible PR. Awful.

Agnew's firing is indeed mystifying. I would imagine that something else is at work there. Either Salvatore fired him to lift blame from himself, or there was some other issue that was festering and this was a good excuse... Radnich points out that all the Susquehanna radio stations are up for sale, and that in many ways this house-cleaning is specifically to get the issue dealt with before a bad relationship with the Giants and bad publicity for the station sours any sell-off deals.

By the way, I believe the station when they say that the Giants didn't ask for firings. But as many of us participating in this conversation understand, the business world is full of relationships that are far more complex, with many more levels, than is apparent to the naked eye. The Giants didn't have to push these guys off the ledge. All they had to do was make the lemon face, some general threats, and some intimations of future oogy feelings if someone like Krueger was still hanging around the station. KNBR knows how valuable its relationship with the Giants is.

Dan:

Again, it's all about the context. Your example is a blanket statement that refers to a large, generalized group. Because of that, it's easy to extrapolate that the speaker is really targeting all Asians as an ethnic group.

Krueger, on the other hand, was clearly delineating three or four very specific guys on the Giants lineup. To my mind, it's a much larger leap from there to "all Caribbean hitters are brain-dead." Unless, of course, as Jason points out, the whole lineup sucks and Krueger simply chose to pick on the Dominicans and Venezualans.

But I daresay we have officially belabored the point.

Let me belabor the point one final time ;-) with a couple thoughts:

For what it's worth, I agree with you guys that although the original incident was bad, it probably wouldn't have resulted in firings if KNBR had just a bit more PR sense with their initial response and, of course, if the content guys hadn't responded to Alou with the parody stuff. But KNBR's defiant attitude just pissed off Alou and the Giants, who then made a big deal on their side, and then the parody, and so on. Bad situation all around.

But on the topic of Krueger, I have to wonder why he even made the "Caribbean" comment to begin with. After all, it's not just the "Caribbean" players who are "hacking at slop nightly," as anyone who has watched the Giants as of late can attest. So, given that there's long been a stereotype in MLB about Latin/Carribbean players being free-swingers, I tend to think that, yes, Krueger was playing off a racial stereotype rather using the term as shorthand for a particular group of players who just all happen to be of the same ethnic background ;-)

One thing also to remember about the Giants reaction (if this hasn't been brought up already) -- this franchise in particular has had reason to honor "Caribbean" players more than just about any other. Whether it's the Alou brothers, Orlando Cepeda, or Juan Marischal, the history of this particular ballclub dictates that you're not going to get away with that kind of comment here.

Perhaps Kansas City, or maybe in Arizona, where the demographics of the area in addition to the history of the ballclub won't hold any Latin players in especially high regard -- but here...folks, we're talking a practical mecca for Latin players, a place where they were put on the map in a huge way...

And Krueger's comments were going to be let go? Here? No, not without some bowing, scraping, kissing ass, etc., and perhaps not even after that.

On 2nd thought, I'm starting to think that the firing may not have been avoidable after all...

Listen folks. It's not that Krueger called any player brain dead. The question is why was it necessary to characterize the hitters race/nationality in that way?
We all know that a great many baseball players are of Latin descent these days. Does that have anything to do with how they play the game?
It's the same as Archie Bunker saying, "Everyone knows colored's see better at night, good for night games."
If a player is brain dead because he is swinging at garbage, the fact that he is Carribean should not enter into it at all. To mention his race or nationality in such a case is racism, pure and simple.
If you have trouble seeing that, maybe you should examine your own concience in these matters.

Thanks to Felipe for standing up for what he believes in!!! It's too bad it took a strong stand from him to ensure justice was served. It's also too bad that KNBR sees themselves as "Saturday Night Live" and not a true sports station. Sports and life has no room for insensitive people who still live back in the day of Archie Bunker.

I think that he was very disrespectful to all of us latinos.
I hope that he never find a respectable job.

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